– Prime minister, unfortunately, we must begin this conversation with the terroristattack in Magdeburg.
– Before the migration invasion occurred in Europe, such things did not happen. Since then, however, they have been happening repeatedly. Let us give thanks to God that we do not have to endure such events. Preventing further attacks is only the task of countries that allowed migrants to enter. In places where they were not allowed in, the conclusion is clear: they must not be let in going forward - full stop. I cannot say which one's tougher: not letting them in, or defending yourself after you already have allowed them in. Fortunately, we Hungarians had the sense and the courage to say no in time. If you make a mistake, you are trapped, and then a completely different world begins. The Germans are already living in that other world.
– Germany and France are suffering from a combination of political turmoil and economic crisis, which inevitably affects the whole of Europe. Is there any sign that this might change?
– This is just the beginning. Together, the U.S.and Europe have spent approximately 300 billion euros on the war. That amount of money could have rapidly raised living standards across Europe. It could have brought the entire Balkans up to the level of European development. We could have curbed migration and built a completely new European defence system. But this money has been burned. The result? One-fifth of Ukraine's territory is under occupation. Hundreds of thousands of people have died; hundreds of thousands more have been maimed or injured. Hundreds of thousands have been widowed or orphaned. Meanwhile, millions have fled Ukraine, whose infrastructure, transport, and energy systems are in ruins. The country is incapable of sustaining itself economically within the foreseeable future.
– Have you had a more challenging year than this one?
– There are no easy years in my line of work. It is true, however, that we've not faced such an unlucky period before.
In the western world, several leaders who are captivated by alien, dangerous ideologies and incapable of defending their countries are simultaneously in power. After the 2020 election, which was obviously rigged to deny Donald Trump the presidency, Angela Merkel, Germany's strong and stable chancellor, departed within a year, and France's complex political system began to show its less attractive side. At precisely this moment, we found ourselves involved in a military conflict with Russia that exceeds our strength. The stars in the skies have never aligned so poorly, and the past four years have been the most challenging period since the winds of regime change swept me into politics.
– One of those stars has now risen for you: Donald Trump is back, and your personal relationship with him is excellent. But does this bode well for Hungary? Because the previously poor relations with the U.S. administration have had negative consequences.
– The goal of a healthy-minded country's foreign policy is to make friends. The more countries there are worldwide that have an interest in Hungary's success, the better. The new American president is fond of Hungary. The Chinese president has visited two European Union countries: France and us. Turkey's president is our friend, Russia's president is a correct partner, and Israel's prime minister is also a good friend. Such a situation has rarely, if ever, occurred in the history of Hungarian diplomacy. Managing these relationships simultaneously, ensuring that none them falters and preventing their conflicts with other from damaging their relations with us is complex, but not impossible. We must make friends globally so that tangible benefits may accrue to Hungary and every Hungarian citizen. Regarding America, this now means rectifying the absence of a double-taxation avoidance agreement over the past four years. America, which was previously Hungary's second-largest investor, suddenly fell to fourth place. This was a significant loss for Hungary. Hungarians will significantly benefit from a fair visa system, a double-taxation treaty, and robust American investments in Hungary. Additionally, the world will become safer as we move closer to peace - perhaps even achieving it - and the many ideological absurdities that have proliferated globally will be pruned back, with sharp clippers.
– Donald Trump did not win in Europe, particularly not in Brussels. However, the Patriots’ group has been formed in the European Parliament, which is a significant political achievement. Yet, they have been excluded from positions of power by the European People's Party and the Socialists. Do you see a chance for further growth?
– Since the fall of Communism in 1990, a new kind of political struggle has emerged in the Western world. Liberals are building a global government and a progressive world order, while patriots advocate for a world order based on nation-states. With Donald Trump’s victory, the patriots have been given a breakthrough opportunity. Of course, the key development was that European patriots organised themselves. Until you unite with like-minded individuals, announce your program, and raise your banner, you can only dream. The second key point is that the patriots won in America. Donald Trump is a patriot, and the Republican Party, reshaped under his leadership, is now a patriotic party. This will also impact cooperation between America and Europe. Concerning the situation within Europe, however, we have gained strength due to the Americans’ victory, but we are still not the majority. Thus, the struggle continues. We have a military plan, so to speak, for cooperating with European conservatives and for demonstrating to members of the European People's Party that genuine Christian democratic conservatism and tradition lie with the patriots - not with them.
First, we will reshape Europe's map of political parties, and then we aim to take control of the European Commission through a parliamentary majority.
These are our ambitions. Implementing all this will undoubtedly take many years, but a patriotic victory would open such new opportunities and horizons for European nations and citizens that are worth pursuing.
– Hungary's EU Presidency has ended. How do you think its achievements differed from previous EU presidencies?
– My motto is that no one can be smart enough alone. As always, I sought advice from my older, long-time friends about how the Hungarian presidency should be conducted. The most compelling advice came from former French President Nicolas Sarkozy. He said that Hungary must decide whether to pursue a bureaucratic or a political presidency. If you want pats on the back in Europe’s salons, then say you’ve opened 58 legislative dossiers and made incremental progress on all of them. Or, he said, you can give Europe a political presidency and tackle the burning issues on the table, aiming to solve them. But," Sarkozy warned, "if you choose this path, you’ll face attacks from all sides because these are contentious, divisive matters. The first issue is the war. If we’re delivering a political EU presidency, we must start with peace and peace missions. The second is the Schengen expansion involving Romania and Bulgaria. The third is the Western Balkans, which should have joined the European Union long ago, but the enlargement process has stalled. Fourth is the deteriorating state of Europe’s economy. Then there’s the future of European agriculture. I sat down with ministers and my staff, assessed our resources and courage, and it's only after this that we undertook the political presidency. Who remembers the types of EU presidencies before us? No one. But we launched a peace mission, successfully expanded the Schengen Area, advanced Balkan integration, built consensus among agricultural ministers, and agreed on a roadmap to save Europe’s economy, including the adoption of the Budapest Declaration on competitiveness.
The Hungarian presidency will be remembered for a long time.
– Let's return to Hungary. The Hungarian economy is unable to regain its footing, whilst - since 2010 - one of the basic traits of your governance has been defined by progress, Hungary and the Hungarians making smaller, or larger steps, each and every year. Are you concerned about the current situation?
– Of course, we want to take steps forward every year. But there are years when survival itself is an achievement—when simply holding our ground is a success. The war years are such years. Hungary has weathered three years of war. We tried to take advantage of the circumstances and even turn the wartime situation somewhat to our benefit, but no country in Europe has succeeded in doing so. Everyone has suffered in this war, all economies included. It is a significant accomplishment that Hungary has not regressed and has avoided falling into the same state as most European economies, particularly in terms of competitiveness. So now, when the war ends, we can hit the ground running. Only those who have prepared, laid a solid foundation, warmed up, and know where to stand when the starting gun fires can make a flying start. We are ready, and in 2025, we will hit the ground running. The years of peace will replace wartime politics, and we will achieve great economic successes again.
– And what if the war doesn't end?
– The war will end in 2025, either through a peace negotiation or because one of the warring parties is destroyed.
– Also among this year’s notable development, Fidesz has been forced into competition that it hasn’t faced in a long time, with the emergence of a new challenger, Peter Magyar and the Tisza Party. Did this surprise you? Do you consider it a threat, or do you rank it among the usual field of competitors?
– A prime minister should concern himself with the people and the country’s affairs, not the opposition. That said, I can tell you this: Compared to the current challengers, Gyurcsany was more like Adenauer. Still, competition is a good thing. Without competition, you grow complacent and start to think that you can do your job as part of a routine. And in politics, this approach is deadly. I’ve always watched with keen interest when life presented us with new challengers. Whether what’s happening on the opposition side benefits the country is another question entirely. What is undoubtedly good for the country is when political debates focus on facts and important matters, conducted intelligently and offering solutions. What is not good is when aggressive ranting becomes dominant, which seems to be the strategy of the new opposition. But weak competitors tend to complain about the tools their opponents use. They'll use everything against us - no question. This time, Brussels has assigned agents with orders to remove us, and they’ve chosen this method of attack. We’ll fight them, too. Some things, however, remain constant despite the shifting tactics. Since 2010, Hungary has decided not to follow the path Brussels proposes, because that would ruin us. This lesson was clear after the financial crisis, reinforced by the migration crisis, and became even clearer during COVID when EU bureaucrats prioritized the blocking of non-Western vaccines from entering European markets over saving lives. Now, all this is even more evident: if we followed Brussels, we’d be neck-deep in the war. Since 2010, we know full well that Hungary - while it must seek cooperation with Brusels as an EU member state - must not follow Brussels' course. We must not allow Brussels' bureaucrats to dictate Hungary’s course. Otherwise, we’ll end up impoverished, our economy will lose its competitiveness, migrants will flood in, the gender craze will spread, and we might even find ourselves dragged into a war. The Brussels bureaucracy is large and powerful, wielding significant financial resources and tools. Those who deviate from its directives must constantly fight to protect their sovereignty. This is what Hungary is doing. If we had not taken this stance, Hungarian families would now be paying three to four times as much for energy as they currently do. Scenes like those in Magdeburg could be playing out in Hungarian cities, and Hungary’s share of the 300 billion euros sent by the West to Ukraine would also be gone. Meanwhile, we would be trapped in a war that cannot be won, with no clear path to extricate ourselves.
– Prime minister, what Is your message to Hungarians for Christmas 2024?
– Be brave enough to hope. After three brutal years of war next door, besides Brussels' misguided policies, the effects of sanctions on our economy, and years of high inflation caused by Europe’s failed responses, it’s hard to believe that the coming year will be good, let alone fantastic. Hungarians say, "I’ll believe it when I see it." Well, I wish for them to see it.
