"The Difference of Opinion on Ukraine Is Not So Drastic"

Last year in Poland, the Law and Justice (PiS) party secured the most votes, yet it went into opposition. Since then, voters cast their ballots in the local elections, and the EP election is coming up soon. Is it possible to achieve a turnaround in this much time? Has the Ukraine issue poisoned Hungarian-Polish friendship? What is the future for Ukraine? Magyar Nemzet interviewed Marek Kuchcinski, former Sejm speaker and PiS lawmaker, on the sidelines of CPAC Hungary 2024.

Marek Kuchcinski, former Sejm speaker, in Budapest on April 25, 2024 (Photo: Magyar Nemzet)

In Hungary, we were also shocked to see how the new government began purging right after the Polish parliamentary elections. For instance, they swept out the public media and put politicians behind bars. What was it all about? Revenge?

We didn't expect such disregard for the law either – because that's exactly what happened. The rule of law and democratic principles have been trampled underfoot.  Meanwhile, the new Polish government is made up of parties that also dominate the European Parliament. Of course, this came as no surprise as we are well aware of the roots the new Polish leadership has.

They just went back to the ways of the communist era.

The Brussels leadership, which is otherwise so sensitive about the rule of law, remained deeply silent. Did you expect something else?

The silence in Brussels did not surprise me at all. EU agencies have never respected the rule of law or democratic rules. The various European left-wing forces lined up behind the Civic Platform already during the campaign. For example, they sponsored their ads on social media. All this with the knowledge and support of the Brussels leadership. There was one goal: defeating the Law and Justice party in the elections. Despite this, we won - even if in the end we couldn't form a government.

What lessons did you learn?

On lesson we learned is that we didn't make sure that the campaign on social media complied with the laws. For example, more than twenty foundations sponsored appeals to encourage turnout, and several of them also campaigned covertly for our opponents. Moreover, they repeatedly took a vulgar swipe at our politicians in the international media. We didn't respond well to these attacks. We also made a mistake of not being prepared enough to form a coalition while we let our opponents make alliances. Nevertheless, we won our tenth election. This confirms that we are pursuing good policies.

 

Since then, there have also been local elections in Poland. How do you assess the outcome?

Local elections in Poland are quite unique, as they are held at three independent levels: for regional assemblies (voivodship), and for county and municipal councils. The voivodship level is the most important, because it is the most similar to the parliamentary elections. And we came out the best at this level, winning 35 per cent of the seats in the assemblies. As for the county level, our victory there is even clearer: we gained control over half of them. It is practically the same for the municipalities, we provide the mayors in most settlements. However, the picture is more nuanced in the big cities, with the leftist- liberal side taking most of them.

The next test, the European Parliament elections, is coming up soon. What do you expect?

Law and Justice will win in Poland, and Fidesz will win in Hungary. We'll wrest Europe out of the hands of the Left!

The changes are already visible in Poland. A few months were enough for people to become disillusioned with Donald Tusk's government. No wonder: they have failed to deliver on countless pledges. But they have agreed to price hikes, they have abandoned key investments, and they are playing into the EU's hands. For example, they are attacking Poland's national bank so that they can introduce the euro sooner and get their hands on the national gold reserves. Or Poland has so far successfully resisted EU pressure against the traditional family model, but they have succumbed.

Is cooperation with Fidesz in the European Parliament conceivable?

Absolutely. It is very important to have a large conservative group that truly protects the rule of law, democratic principles and the sovereignty of nations. One that opposes the centralising efforts of Brussels. Viktor Orban and Fidesz have an indispensable role to play in this process.

Can the Ukrainian issue drive a wedge between the Hungarian-Polish alliance?

No way, because difference of opinion only proves our diversity. 

It was under communism that people had to think in the same way about everything.

Or more recently, the neo-Marxist, internationalist Western Europeans want this. We certainly don't agree on everything when it comes to Ukraine. But the difference is not as drastic as the media portray it. Most importantly, Vladimir Putin has demonstrated his imperialist ambitions by attacking Ukraine. This means that all countries in the region, including Poland and Hungary, are under threat. We therefore believe that Ukraine should be given all the support it needs, including military aid. Viktor Orban sees it somewhat differently. We understand him, because he has presented his arguments. We also agree that we need peace in Europe. We just believe that the most effective way of doing this is to keep Russia as far away from our borders as possible by all possible means.

Do you expect a protracted war?

It is a difficult question, because it depends on many factors. The outcome of the US presidential election is one of the key factors: I think if Donald Trump wins, support for Ukraine will continue. It will be a huge challenge, but it may force the parties to find a compromise. The other issue is the sanctions, which are currently very easy to  circumvent or they are not enforced. A lot also depends on what will happen in other areas of tension, for example in the Middle East. And the European Parliament elections could be decisive. A conservative turnaround could lead to a stabilization on the basis of which negotiations with Russia can begin.

When can Ukraine join the European Union?

Many years from now. Both Poland and Hungary worked hard to become members, while the functioning of our institutions was already at a higher level before acceding than Ukraine's agencies now. I expect the accession process will be gradual, they won't get full membership right away. The oligarchs and corruption are the key challenges now.

And ethnic minority rights.

Indeed, that's also very important. I would add, however, that there are serious shortcomings in this area also within the European Union. In Germany, for example, the rights of the Polish minority are not respected.

 

What about NATO?

That's quite different.

It would be in the interest of Europe as a whole if the member states were to provide a kind of protective umbrella to guarantee the security of Ukrainian territories that have not been occupied by the Russians.

I would remind everyone that Jaroslaw Kaczynski raised this idea as early as March 2022, during his first visit to Ukraine after the outbreak of the war.

Wouldn't this risk a war between NATO and Russia?

There's a risk of that. But there's no clear answer to your question. I'd like to highlight that the inviolability of borders is one of the basic UN principles and Russia is a member of the UN. Accordingly, NATO and the free world in general must protect a state whose borders have been violated. If we don't, Vladimir Putin may think we are weak. That's why we must stop him decisively.