French Lieutenant General: Russia Must Not Be Humiliated as Germany Was

If anyone, Bertrand de La Chesnais knows the French army well. As a paratrooper, he saw action in among other places the South Slavic war and in Chad, rose to the rank of lieutenant-general and served as deputy chief of staff before retiring in 2017 to become a politician, lining up behind Eric Zemmour. The veteran soldier is now in Budapest at the invitation of the National University of Public Service, where he offers a refreshing dissenting opinion, despite being a Westerner. Sending French troops to Ukraine would be tantamount to a declaration of war, he said, warning of the dangers of a third world war and called for dialogue with the Russians.

Bertrand de La Chesnais, France's former Lieutenant General and Reconquete Party politician (Photo: Arpad Kurucz)

Not long ago, an idea coming from France stirred up Europe: Emmanuel Macron suggested sending troops to Ukraine. What do you think about this?

I think the French president was partly just trying to provoke. Because there are many questions about the plan. For example, how many soldiers would we be sending that could change the balance of power between the Russians and the Ukrainians? And at a time when the French army is much smaller today than it was in the past: we have around 100 000 active personnel, but a significant proportion of them are deployed outside Europe, in other parts of the world. So French involvement in Ukraine could be tokenistic at best. If Emmanuel Macron were to take this decision, it would be tantamount to a declaration of war on Russia. But does he have the support to do so? Is that what the French people want? We already know that we are ready to support the war until the last Ukrainian. 

But we must ask the question: Are we willing to sacrifice French blood? 

European leaders, including Germany, have already said they would not support the idea. And wouldn't sending French or European troops also mean the shutting down of the only path to peace, that of diplomacy?!

Do you agree that Russian President Vladimir Putin would not stop at Ukraine?

I cannot see inside Vladimir Putin's head, but I can and do have a professional appreciation of the military and tactical aspects of war. On this basis, Russia is far from having deployed all its might. As far as I can see, their primary objective is to protect the Russian population in Ukraine and to occupy that territory. They have so far refrained from engaging in war with other countries. I think the most pressing question is: what happens after the war? There is not a word about what we do afterwards, how we negotiate with Russia. And it is necessary to maintain dialogue with the enemy in order to understand what his intentions are. 

And that doesn't necessarily mean you don't enter into war. 

Look at what Israel and Hamas are doing! They are negotiating and fighting at the same time.

Is NATO ready to deter Russia, or even go to war?

This question is more metaphysical. Of course, we must always be ready. It is also clear that NATO's economic capacity far outstrips that of the Russians. However, there are two unpredictable factors. One is whether the European population would support such a war. Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so to find out would require an attack on a member state. The other is whether Vladimir Putin would want a full-scale war against NATO. This would also require dialogue, even through mediators. 

It is the historical experience of France that after World War I, the Treaty of Versailles humiliated Germany, which only led to another war, World War II. We must not repeat the mistake.

Photo: Arpad Kurucz

Do you think Russia will deploy nuclear weapons?

In such a war, anything is possible. That is why we must do everything in our power to prevent the conflict from reaching this point. Russia also has tactical nuclear weapons - which France does not - so it is technically and tactically possible that Moscow could strike a Ukrainian city or nuclear facility.

However, I think Vladimir Putin also knows that this would lead to NATO intervention in Ukraine, direct confrontation, and ultimately World War III.

How do you assess the situation on the front now? Is there a chance of a Ukraine victory?

At the tactical level, we see Russia dominating on land, while Ukraine is trying to hold its positions. If Ukraine wants to regain the territory it has lost, it needs two things: help from NATO and time. Therefore, I stress the need to return to a diplomatic solution as soon as possible. I served in the 1994 South Slav [Balkans] war. There I saw that there was dialogue between the Bosniaks and Serbs throughout. However, the Serbs were unable to capitalize on their successes in the field at the negotiations and were seen by the international community as not wanting peace. So to say, strategically the Bosniaks were better, tactically the Serbs were better. We must learn from this.

Where do you see France's place in the emerging new world order?

Each country's perspective is shaped by its own history, geography and neighbors. A Polish person will have a very different view of history, or of the Russians, than a French person. A Pole or an East-Central European will have an ingrained concern about the Russian threat "running in his veins", having seen it with his own eyes.

To a Frenchman, Russia is perceived as a distant threat, if at all.

In Europe today, two views prevail. One is that two blocs are now clashing. The other - and France subscribes to this one - is that a balance of power is needed, and dialogue is essential. France, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council and a nuclear power, could play an important role in this. Which is not the case at the moment. 

In the last French elections, you lined up behind Eric Zemmour, who the mainstream media were quick to label as far-right. Is he really?

What does it mean to be far right? The term has quite different meanings in France or in say Hungary. So nothing. Eric Zemmour is extreme in one thing: his sense of justice. He always speaks honestly and that is why he is the target of attacks. People aren't used to politicians always doing what they say. In fact, that's where he differs from others, who always prefer being polite and pliantly smooth. The real question is not whether Eric Zemmour is far right or not. It is whether we can freely debate ideologies and values in a democracy. Let us hope that his voice is heard in the forthcoming European elections.

What are the party's chances?

The Reconquete (Rec) [reconquest] party enjoys considerable support in French society, and we hope to cross the five percent threshold for European Parliamentary representation. Unlike national parliamentary elections, European elections have a threshold, which makes them even more important. We currently have one MEP, Nicolas Bay.

Can you imagine collaborating in the European Parliament with the Hungarian governing parties ?

 Yes, of course! After all, Viktor Orban and Eric Zemmour know each other well and see things very similarly. After the elections, Reconquete would like to join the Party of European Conservatives and Reformists, and as far as I know, Fidesz is also in talks about this.