PM Orban: We Must Overhaul Brussels

Just as we were on the verge of recovering from Covid, the war erupted, leading to a significant surge in energy prices. The negative impact of this was exacerbated by the sanctions policy imposed by the European Commission, resulting in skyrocketing inflation. Since the outbreak of the Covid epidemic in the spring of 2020, the aim has been to stay afloat until the end of this year, and we succeeded. Hungary, despite an arduous period behind us, has managed to position itself for a 2024 that will be different in nature compared to the years behind us. The 2023 target of keeping price increases below ten percent has already been met and may even dip below seven percent by year-end, with aspirations for around five percent next year. In simpler terms, this means that in 2023, not just the government but the entire country fought to preserve our achievements, defending what we had. But in 2024, we can focus on working to make Hungary better, on making progress," Prime Minister Orban said, sharing his thoughts in his festive interview with our newspaper.

Miniszterelnöki Sajtóiroda / Benko Vivien Cher Fotó: VIVIEN CHER BENKO

– Prime Minister, you went to the EU summit in Brussels with the firm position that you will not allow negotiations to start on Ukraine's accession. But in the end, you did. Why?

– After an eight-hour debate in which I failed to convince the other EU member states that this was a wrong decision, the question remained whether the 26 countries would be able to impose their will on me or on Hungary. The only answer we could give was that we would not participate in the decision.

They may be more in numbers and unable to accept our view, but we certainly cannot accept theirs, either.

So, I stood by the Hungarian position. Thus Hungary was not involved in this bad decision, and our conscience is not burdened by it. We know that the decision will cause many problems, but we now have a legal basis for averting these problems, should they reach Hungary.

– If twenty-six people spent eight hours trying to persuade me on a subject, at some point I would think that I may be wrong. Has this not occurred to you?

– Yes, it did. I am a lawyer by profession and I come from the world of technical colleges, where all we did for five years was perpetually scrutinize our own views.  Hungarian politics now has the capacity to constantly assess its own position. This is what I did for eight hours, and yes: I did wonder whether it was me going against the traffic, but I came to the firm conclusion that it was them. Every single argument explained or put forward by Hungary is holding up. 

This is not a new situation. This is precisely what happened with migration. Everyone can see where they've gotten to, and where we have gotten to.

– The decision on accession talks with Ukraine is more of a decision in principle, as this process can be stopped at numerous times, later. Is this what you are preparing for?

– I don't consider the opening of negotiations a theoretical issue because, even though the negotiations have not started yet, we've already encountered severe economic problems in two areas. We have an issue with Ukrainian grain that's causing significant losses to Hungarian farmers, and we are compelled to halt Ukrainian trucks at the borders of Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia because they are destroying the hauliers of these countries. Opening accession talks is a declaration stating that we want Ukraine to become a member of the EU. Our problem is that this decision was not preceded by any analysis, to examine what it means for French, German, Hungarian farmers, small businesses, traders, hauliers, and I could list almost the entire cross-section of the economy.

It is undoubtedly true that membership is a lengthy process, and each member state can decelerate or stop this process approximately seventy times. However, this decision, in and of itself, means that twenty-six countries want Ukraine to become a member of the EU and they want to hold substantive negotiations on this.

All this without clarity on where Ukraine's borders are. Not its international legal borders, but its actual geographical borders and how many people live there. Will the territories under the Russian army's occupation, along with their populations, be part of the EU? Are we taking these into consideration? We have no answers to some very basic questions because many thought that this was merely a political gesture, a geopolitical decision.

– However, on two topical and urgent issues, financial support for Ukraine and the extension of the EU budget, you have not allowed a united position to emerge.

– Redirecting 50 billion euros from the EU budget to Kyiv could also mean that we're giving away Hungarians' money. Since the current EU budget lacks this amount of money, it will need to come from somewhere. There are two ways of doing this: one is to take out a joint loan. Now, we have negative experiences when it comes to joint borrowing and the Covid-19 Response and Recovery Fund, so we will not go down that route again. But if we do not take out a loan, we will have to reallocate funds from the existing budget chapters, which could affect Hungary's money. We do not accept that Hungarians' money should be given to Ukraine.

– By the way, do I understand correctly that, in connection with increasing the EU budget, Brussels is asking Hungary - among other things - for more money, allowing it to pay the increased interest on the Recovery and Resilience Facility loan? In other words: do they want to collect more money from us to pay the interest on a loan that we have not even received?

– Your understanding is correct.

– Such impudence is surprising, even from Brussels.

– This is an accurate description of the situation.

– Are you not concerned that your voters are getting fed up with the EU?

– No. I accept this as a natural fact. I am also fed up with Brussels. The question is what conclusion we can draw from this situation. My conclusion is that we should try and make additional inroads, to take up positions, gather allies and improve the European Union. 

Being mad just isn't enough; we have to occupy Brussels!

– Still, would it not be the right choice to support Ukraine with money? It's an important neighbor close by, attacked by Russia and fighting for its very existence.

– This is a legitimate concern that will need to be addressed by the Hungarian parliament. Today, all we can say is that anyone who wants to give money to Ukraine should do so outside the EU budget, and not by reallocating our money.

– For years, Hungary-Ukraine relations have been terribly bad. Should we not engage in some self-reflection as to why? 

– It's always good to self-reflect. I have thought this issue through many times over, and I firmly believe that Hungary bears no responsibility for the deterioration in relations.

The deterioration of relations dates back to 2015 when Ukraine repealed a law safeguarding the survival of the Hungarian minority as a national community.

For eight years, Hungarians who were born in Transcarpathia and have always lived there have been deprived of their rights. This Hungarian national community is one thousand and one hundred years old: their rights were rescinded in 2015, including their cultural rights, their right to educate their kids in their native tongue, and their broader language usage rights. This must be remedied by Ukraine. They must restore the legislation that they abolished and restore the rights that were repealed. Once this is done, relations can begin to improve.

Photo: PM's Press Office/Benko Vivien Cher

– The European Parliament and the Council of the European Union have reached a deal on the EU's migration pact in Brussels, and Hungary was unable to prevent this.

– Here, too, they breached their promise. We agreed earlier that we would only take a unanimous decision. This was overturned, and they decided despite opposition from Hungary and Poland. This pact is wrong. There is only one solution to migration; everything else is doomed to failure. The key lies in where migrants wishing to enter an EU country stay until their entry applications are assessed. If they can enter the EU's territory and wait here, it's over: they'll stay. So they must be kept outside. Hungarian law, which is why the EU is suing us, stipulates that migrants must wait for this assessment outside the country, and they can only enter after a positive decision has been reached. I've been trying to get other countries to understand this for eight years, but to no avail. They don't really want to stop migration; they want to manage it, as they say.

– Are the migrant ghettos coming, or is there still a possibility that we'll be left out of this?

– We'll find ourselves in a situation that whatever Brussels dictates, we'll refuse to do. And since we reject the implementation, we'll will face a legal procedure, in which we'll prove that the EU allowing in people whose cases have not been assessed before, or us taking over migrants already admitted by other countries run counter to the Hungarian constitution, as this could shift the composition of our country's population. We are facing serious debates and procedures.

– This year has not been very successful for the Hungarian economy. We stayed afloat, but at a price, for example, with inflation at its highest level in Europe for a long time. The question now is: is all this behind us?

– We should not be talking about one year, but four. It all started with Covid, and since then it's been blow after blow.

Just as we were on the verge of recovering from Covid, the war erupted, leading to a significant surge in energy prices. The negative impact of this was exacerbated by the sanctions policy imposed by the European Commission, resulting in skyrocketing inflation. Since the outbreak of the Covid epidemic in the spring of 2020, the aim has been to stay afloat until the end of this year, and we succeeded. Hungary, despite an arduous period behind us, has managed to position itself for a 2024 that will be different in nature compared to the years behind us. The 2023 target of keeping price increases below ten percent has already been met and may even dip below seven percent by year-end, with aspirations for around five percent next year. In simpler terms, this means that in 2023, not just the government but the entire country fought to preserve our achievements, defending what we had. But in 2024, we can focus on working to make Hungary better, on making progress. Therefore, the character of next year will be very different from this year. I would like the issue of families to take center stage once again. 

– The latest crucial step in Hungarian domestic policy is the adoption of the Sovereignty Protection Law, a move that's riled up the "dollar left" and the dollar media, who've been complaining about it ever since.

– The essence of the Sovereignty Protection Law lies in preventing Hungarian politics from being influenced by foreign money. We have a constitution and a legal system that safeguard our national independence. 

The last general election, coupled with admissions from the left, exposed some lingering loopholes, as they attempted to influence the will of the Hungarian electorate with millions of dollars from abroad. 

A national government, or country that aspires to sovereignty, has no choice but to eliminate these loopholes and seal them tight. This is the purpose of the law. We will see how it works in practice. Action is certainly needed. It is the constitutional, moral and historical duty of a parliamentary majority to prevent and penalize any actor in political life for selling out their own country in exchange for money.

– 2024 will be an election year, with both European Parliament elections and general elections here, in Hungary. Looking at the internal movements of the left, it seems that, for the umpteenth time, you will once again be facing your old adversary, ex-PM Ferenc Gyurcsany. Is there some magnetic or magical force linking you? Or is it destiny? 

– If it's destiny, then let it be his, rather than mine. Regarding the EP elections, the stakes are higher than ever. The European Union has experienced a steady decline in recent years, losing ground in the world economy and struggling to establish self-defense capabilities or effectively manage conflicts in its neighborhood. Despite this decline, the EU seems incapable of addressing these issues, self-reflecting, and improving its policies. The root cause lies in the fact that the actions of Brussels bureaucrats are dictated not by the member states or the people of Europe, but by Washington and the Soros empire. This situation is detrimental to Europe, and it must change. Tidying up Brussels is imperative, and the EP elections provide an excellent opportunity for that.

– Although this is a festive interview, it will be published on Saturday, December 23. The following day is Sunday, the 24th. Will you have festive feelings on Saturday?

– I don't think so. For me, every Saturday is a working day. My job can't be confined to five days a week. Moreover, even tonight will be a night of Christmas doubts as our house is still in disarray. With many children and grandchildren, there's always a question of whether we'll be able to put everything in place, decorate, organize, and prepare. This is usually decided sometime around three or four o'clock on the afternoon of the 24th when, miraculously, everything falls into place: the edginess, uneasiness, and all the rush cease, and Christmas Eve arrives.

– Prime Minister, what's your message to Hungary for next year?

– I can see that the years we have left behind, overcoming various crises and fighting off dangers, have strengthened our self-confidence and self-esteem. We are a nation of talent, hard work, and resilience - a community that, even in the most difficult times, never gives up hope that better times are yet to come. Fighting for the right causes can be difficult, but if you stick to your views and do your job with integrity, things will surely get better in the end.

Cover photo: Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban (Photo: PM's Press Office/Benko Vivien Cher)